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  1. 2 likes
    Here is a report on the EC from LowRider, another class 4 (RoG 15). He mentions all the CS boats/people. https://www.bedardyachtdesign.com/everglades-challenge-2017-recap/
  2. 2 likes
    For those who can't get enough of Watching CS17s sailing the EC, here are pair of videos. This is Swimboy's video And this is Nomadic and Rover on the "turbo" CS17
  3. 2 likes
    George, We're all anxious to see the big reveal to be sure! However while I certainly appreciate you posting any pictures of the boat here for continuity of this thread, I for one don't care to read anything here that would bash Chris as a person or his business. I infer and assume that you were not happy with his services but that is between you and him and not relevant here in my opinion of course. I think most importantly, the record of pictures here on this thread adds a lot of value to your boat which I truly hope you are proud to own despite any bumps in the road you've had with Chris. Anyone here can see the details, materials and workmanship that was involved. I hope to see the boat in person some day soon. Sincerely and with respect -Alan
  4. 2 likes
  5. 2 likes
    Is it really that much more mild this winter? Seem to remember drifts of snow surrounding your last project. Dories and skiffs always shock me with how darn lovely they are. Peace, Robert
  6. 2 likes
    Main mast raised and mizzen stepped for the first time at the canvas shop. No hitches. And they look very close to being pararllel. "Chessie" will be there for about a week while she's measured and fitted for cabin cushions and a [no] boom tent. I'll be able to do family tax returns, earn some $$, read a book, dream of cruising with "Chessie," lightly tackle the honey-do list, etc.
  7. 2 likes
    Robert - Thanks for continuing to contribute here. I've been slack lately because I always read and enjoy your posts but lately I haven't chimed in (sorry for that). I like all the projects you've shared here mostly because you're willing to go your own way and you're not shy about sharing the ups and downs of it all. That kind of attitude is both interesting and educational. Your enthusiasm for other people's projects (including mine) is infectious and I'm looking forward to catching up with you next time I get to CA and going for a paddle (though that is probably pretty far in the future). If you decide you'd rather concentrate on actually building a boat than playing around on the internet you'll still be my hero but I'll be extra happy if you can spare a little time to share and let me and the rest of the forum go along for the ride. I'll try to remember in the future that an occasional atta-boy from me might be helpful. Keep up the good work - You're exactly what this community needs.
  8. 2 likes
    Rounding them is a good idea if you hit something and it lifts the skin into those. And just long enough to lash them in place. Try one before you commit, I have cut them a little short and it's hard to lash.
  9. 1 like
    Yeah, it happens and there are common errors that affect carpentry. A famous one that gets me frequently enough to force me to double check, is reading the tape measure on the wrong side. Let's say you need a board cut a 66 1/2", so you pull the tape out from right to left and read the tape upside down. No big deal, but it's really easy to put a tick mark at 65 1/2", because you've ticked on the right side of the 66" mark as you naturally do, but the tape is upside down, so it's actually 65 1/2". You'll recognize this mistake when things are exactly an inch off.
  10. 1 like
    Agreed, Chick. The annual permit for Lake Bowen is $400 (for out-of-state residents) to launch a powered boat at my preferred lake. That includes an electric trolling motor! The permit is only good for two lakes in the area. Needless to say, I don't buy one. They will only ever see my sails and oars.
  11. 1 like
    Chick, I have to measure my oars, I think that they are 9'6" or a bit longer. Don't forget, I cut a slice out of my coamings to get the oarlocks lower. This allows for shorter oars. Don, I was well pleased with a cell phone and the Navionics nav program. I did just use it as a backup for my Garmin. The Garmin did go black one time and I was happy to have a backup. I used it at night time for planning the next days sail. I found that each map covered areas differently and it was handy to have a second opinion in areas where I wanted more detail. It worked for me every time and I am glad that I had it. I tried to download Peter's recommended program but could not find a cell phone app for it. In fact I could not get it loaded onto my computer for a test drive. I guess I need a millennial to help me.
  12. 1 like
    Steve, In Carlita's first EC I did some temporary stuff because of time and everything had to come back off for finishing. I had a couple of small leaks plus I found a tiny leak under my forward king post. It was a real pain to have to sponge out every time I stopped and cost me a lot of time searching for the problem. Not to mention water damage to gear. I spent enough time in this years EC to go through one of the wettest part of the course and I was delighted to report that not one drop of water entered the boat that did not drip off of me. The same went for driving rain at 60 mph on the highway. The little bit of water that dripped off of me was easily sponged out of the glassed in well between the bunks.
  13. 1 like
    Finally some little progress !!
  14. 1 like
    Makes perfect sense to me, Graham. I'm pleased to know that you considered coming again. Looks like we'll have a lot more participants this year.
  15. 1 like
    This topic is a gentle hint to remind Roo and SOS that there is interest in knowing their experiences and observations on the EC
  16. 1 like
    An 1/8" gap on either side is fine, though much bigger and you could expect some humming, without a slot flap.
  17. 1 like
    I will be posting an update on our boat next few days. I know several people want to know the status of this project and I will be posting pictures and updates regularly. I am not sure if Chris deleted his account or he was removed...!!! Have a good day. George
  18. 1 like
    There are a number of ways to skin this cat. I was having a similar issue when I did the skeg, so I elected to scribe the profile and fit a filler piece, which I found faster and easier. I wouldn't worry about gaps, though I would grind down bumps to eliminate as many as practical. You do need to make a decision about bedding or bonding the skeg. The two are different and one doesn't need the other, if it's glued. I like to think about repairs and replaceability, so I went my way, but you may have different ideas or needs. Both a bedded or glued skeg can work just fine. Once the decision is made, you methods are the same. If you do glue it down, yep, watching for too much ooze out, from excessive pressure is a good idea. You can very slightly hollow out the underside of the skeg (where it lands on the hull) so there's a place for the goo to live, when bent into position. You also don't need fasteners, if you're gluing it down. Some weights will hold it in place until the goo cures. Rachet straps, Spanish windlass, even duct tape will do. Don't use drywall/sheetrock screws as temporary fasteners. These will just piss you off, when you break them in the work. Use "deck screws" which are often coated gray. Also "tech" screws are handy to have a round too, with their button heads and point options. Both of these are much stronger and though slightly more costly, you can trust them to not break and they can be reused, repeatedly. I've found the drive type makes little difference if you're not asking too much from the fastener. A stripped out fastener is a pain in the butt, though you knew long before you were going to strip it, maybe because it was too small, you had a lousy drive angle, a rounded over tip, were applying way too much pressure for the size of the fastener, etc., etc., etc. Try to avoid making these mistakes, as soon as you notice you're about to try it anyway. I've caught myself countless times saying to myself, "I'm going to strip this thing". Age has finally taught me to pay attention to this inner voice and stop, rethink and grab a bigger screw. As to which filler, well you're going to need some silica to control viscosity, but I like to add milled fibers to improve elongation and cross link. Cotton flock (404) or a straight silica joint will do too. I dislike pure silica joints, because you can get dramatically weak areas in it, unless carefully mixed and it's more brittle in compression, which is precisely what a skeg will see in an impact. Both 404 and milled fibers are better in this regard, though you'll still need some silica to thicken it up.
  19. 1 like
    PAR, Thanks again. That is all great advice. I also read the "Painting" section on your website. Kudos to you for taking the time to write and share all that good info. I see you are located in Eustis, FL. We happen to have two sailboats built in Eustis here at our museum in Solomons, MD. They were built by Earnest "Dick" Hartge, a well known Chesapeake Bay designer and builder who retired to Eustis in the late 1960s. Witch of the Wave is a traditionally built plank on frame livery boat. He built five or six of them in Eustis that he kept on the shore of his property to rent out and earn a little money. He actually prefabbed a lot of the parts here in Maryland and built the boats once he got set up in Florida. He called that design the "Breadwinner" class. Spirit is a much more interesting boat to sail. He built her in his 80s by and for himself. It was essentially his last boat as he only built one more smaller boat after that. She is strip planked and weighs about what a Lightning does, ~700 lbs. Hartge was well known for designing and building several winning boats in the Chesapeake 20 class. Spirit looks a lot like one of his Chesapeake 20s except Spirit is double-ended and 2 feet longer (22 ft LOD). Our boatshop did a restoration on her a couple years ago and she has a nice new set of sails.
  20. 1 like
    Sorry I don't know which one, but one of Alan's videos of his CS15 build shows the gap he has for his centreboard and there is some gap. In the video he points out that, while sailing, the foil is generally pushed hard against one side of the trunk so there is no rattle due to the space between the trunk and the foil. There is a good visual and explanation in that video. Matt
  21. 1 like
    We have bought a lot of ply from Hood distribution over the years. They carry a lot of brands with varying quality. They definitely carry Joubert but sometimes were out of stock in certain thicknesses. Joubert is the only brand that I would buy from them.
  22. 1 like
    I feel that the new centerboard is better. I still have not had the chance to do some tacking in flat, tideless water to see what my tacking angle is. I had to pinch to lay course in some fresh wind and was able to make the buoy I was aiming for which pleased me. I believe that the picture that was posted on the watertribe facebook page was taken at that time.
  23. 1 like
    Thank you for relating the story of Nomadic and Rover coming to the assistance of a fellow boater. There are not many details, but they could not have known that someone desperately needed their help when they interrupted their plans to investigate an unusual flashing light. Nice lesson.
  24. 1 like
    Thanks for the report, Graham. I agree with replacing the word "failure", maybe with "scratched". I lost a whole month in building my skiff, due to a horrible back failure. There is absolutely nothing you can do in that circumstance, except respect the pain. You did the right thing.
  25. 1 like
    You could edit the word failed out of your report. What else do you need to do? I don't know. Matthew Flinders? In more serious answer to your question. You may wand to save the file as a PDF on you computer.
  26. 1 like
    Nothing, I was able to open & read it
  27. 1 like
    Do all of your painting at once, though separating inside and outside is often necessary. If you're going to paint, there's no reason to leave anything in primer, for any longer then it takes to dry. Primers stain very easily, they absorb moisture, scuff and generally are easily damaged, just leading to more hair pulling, so get the top coats on, while setup for painting. Roll her over after the paint is dry for a week or more, to insure no marks. For most this means painting the outside, then rolling her over to sit in a cradle or on the trailer to finish up the inside. I usually paint the outside pretty quickly, but wait on the inside until the last moment, because there's always that one set of holes that'll need to be drilled right after you've finished with the pretty stuff, at least with my typical luck, planning and forethought.
  28. 1 like
    PAR, Thank you for the paint tent photos and assembly tips. This looks like the way to go. I'm rethinking my "order of operations" for painting the boat. I was planning to prime and final paint the interior and deck before I flipped the boat and glassed the hull. I'm thinking now that I should just do interior primer, then flip/glass/fair/prime the outside. Then I could erect a paint tent just for the top coats on the whole boat. I would still have to flip the boat inside the tent at least once but I have lots of help and overhead hoists. Sound reasonable?
  29. 1 like
    Using some 1x2's, erect a box around your space and toss a plastic "drop cloth" over it. These are cheap and clear enough you can see what you're doing without having to bring in lighting. Staple the plastic to the frame work and make a big flap for a door. If you want to be able to reuse this plastic or so yoy can tear it down and reset it up, put packaging tape along the edges. This will permit your to remove it, without tearing it up too much. The tape on the edges also will make the door more durable. To futher this temporary paint booth thingie, make a frame (more 1x2's) so you can fit a big (24x24") A/C or furnace filter in one of the walls. Make two of these holes and in the other, preferably on the opposite side a small box fan. With the booth closed up, it'll suck in filtered air and exhaust fumes. Above is using PVC pipe, but you should get the idea. This is much more complex than the ones I use to make, but maybe this guy wanted something more durable. Mine had just enough 1x2's to hold stuff up and little else, but the door, fan and filter.
  30. 1 like
    Thanks Joe! swimboy has finished! Congrats
  31. 1 like
    Dawn and Kristen have left Chokoloskee, but instead of staying on the inside route through the Wilderness Waterway they headed out into the Gulf. Nomadic is off the beach and headed around Cape Sable. Alan and Paul are headed back out of Flamingo heading the long way round avoiding the obstacles of Florida Bay. Swimboy checked into Flamingo and headed back out. However he appears to be heading into Florida Bay. The Bay is a shorter route but can be tricky to impossible depending on the conditions.
  32. 1 like
    You boat is looking good Walt. I was just reading about your plans of reinforcing the chines with some sacrificial wood. Have you considered using Kevlar fabric to protect the chines?
  33. 1 like
    Jamestown Distributors used to publish a chart with the tensile strengths of bedding/sealants. I found it very useful and memorized the key products I used They went in order of bonding strength: 1. 3M 5200 - 700 psi polyurethane - extremely adhesive ( I use this only when I see no need to take it apart ever. There is a serious danger of damage doing so.) 2. 3M 4200 - 300 psi polyurethane 3. Sikaflex 291 - 220 psi polyurethane (I use this when I really want white that won't yellow and I can live with the nuisance taking things apart later) 4. 3M 101 and BoatLife LifeCaulk - 150 psi polysulfides (These are my beddings of choice for hardware. The only problem is that the white will yellow over time.) 5. Dolfinite - nil - oil based goo - not an adhesive at all (AKA boatyard bedding. This is the product from the old days.) OK, they still have one, but I had to look: https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/document.do?docId=1170&title=Marine+Adhesives+Strength+and+Usage+Comparison+Chart I find the most important technique for using any but Dolfinite is to smear both surfaces and make sure no bubbles or voids exist, then put them together with at least some ooze out all the way around. Masking can make clean up easier and in some cases I leave the ooze to cut off later with a utility knife.
  34. 1 like
    From the Watertribe Facebook page . . . Here's swimboy's CS17 coming into check point #2 (or #1, depending on how you're counting) in Chokoloskee That's a pretty boat
  35. 1 like
    Actually, the historically correct term for this design is "Dorothy". (running for cover) That's beautiful work.
  36. 1 like
    I went to school with a girl named Dorrie. She was also good lookin'.
  37. 1 like
    You seen the one where the dude just built a dory?:) Peace, Robert
  38. 1 like
    Epoxy alone doesn't add much toughness, nor abrasion resistance to a piece of wood, particularly softwoods. Fabric and fillers toughen up epoxy, though to some degree several coats (not just 3 or 4) can add to toughness, but nothing like fabric and fillers. I've gotten my hands on Kevlar dust and fibers, which when mixed with straight epoxy makes a very tough coating, if difficult to spread and sand. Ideally, skegs and wooden rubs should be a dense hardwood, if only to tolerate more abuse. Yes, the reason it fails is because moisture get behind the plastic membrane and can't get back out easily. Breaches in the coating and fasteners are the usual routes, which is why I recommend bonding the fastener holes and regular inspections to keep up with minor dings and scratches. 304 stainless can work, but only in bonded fastener holes. In fact, I've never seen one corrode or fail if truly embedded in goo. 316 or 316L are much better choices, but usually special order or speciality stores online (McFeelys or FastenAll for example). The bronzes are also exceptional, though you'll pay dearly for them. Bronze and monel are the ideal metals for rub strips. They don't corrode easily and are tough. Again, both of these will make you cry when you see the price. Naturally, the fasteners need to match the strips used. Those screws look like they might have been zinc plated, not stainless. Hot dipped galvanized will hold up moderately well, with some rust stains to be expected, after a number of years. Zinc plated are mostly junk, as are the "coated" screws that are suggested corrosion resistant on the package. I tend to use a lot of aluminum rub strips on small boats. It's easy to machine, can be bonded down (epoxy) and/or screwed and though some corrosion will occur with stainless screws, it takes a while before the strip is compromised and it'll probably need to be replaced by then anyway. To stave off this corrosion, I usually put a dot of polyurethane under the heads, before I drive them home, thinking it'll help isolate the dissimilar metals. There are also purpose made flathead washers of teflon, that can do a remarkable job of isolation too, if you're really worried about it. I do this on mast tracks sometimes, but not usually a rub strip. A well shaped hunk of aluminum, roughed in with a jig and a bandsaw, then fine tuned with some fines and a DA. I even radiused the edges with the DA. After it was drilled for fasteners it was polished up, There's a lot of shape to this strip, which is two pieces. The narrowest portion is at the aft end of the skeg, less than 3/4", it swells around the board slot, maybe 2.5", tapering back down to the stem and swells again at the stemhead, which it wraps around (over the top). This is some 5052 alloy, because I expected some saltwater use from the client. I'd use 6061 if it was above water and a structural element.
  39. 1 like
    I'm finishing my decks and cockpit seats bright. There are filled holes and other imperfections. To me, they're character. To my family, the finish is beautiful. To anyone 6 feet away (other boaters), no dings can be seen, and people seem amazed to see real wood grain and the warm varnish glow. 4 coats of varnish to start is the same as two coats of primer and two of finish paint, and I don't have to worry about fainting while I apply. I will need to varnish in the future, but it's a couple of hours/yr. And I like to varnish. The picture is just the first coat of varnish on the decks. I got one more coat on, then I had to put it away for the winter. Cockpit not quite ready to be varnished yet. And it doesn't have to be perfect, at least mine doesn't. See the filled screw holes? Me either. But I like navy, too.
  40. 1 like
    MUCH too purty to mess up by actually using it!
  41. 1 like
    You're killing me, Dave. This boat is gorgeous!
  42. 1 like
  43. 1 like
    Don't sweat the small stuff. I have caught hell from my projects and some unorthodoxed construction methods over the years right along with building with reclaimed materials. This goes with the territory on the net in general. Keep posting, joking and poking away at your build and enjoy it on the water for however long you wish. Oh I almost forgot, EPOXY IS CRAP too, or so says the Committee.. I am still waiting to see the finished 256 from Chris, especially in person if its close to ENC before a good friend commits to such a project.
  44. 1 like
    My guess would be Teflon bottom paint - makes the boat slide off the trailer 3x faster. Lots of hype in these 5MPH races. Just guessing though. PeterP
  45. 1 like
    A good point is raised in the previous post. Though this particular forum is one of the nicest (without a doubt the best, thanks Frank) I participate on, it's often hard to convey the appropriate emotions. I'm as much a cynical/wiseass as anyone my age, which I think is a normal progression for intelligent folks. I do hold much of my cynicalness for personal conversations, but I still get in sometimes inappropriate zingers occasionally. In my mind, it's a sense of humor and banter that I hope is transmitted, but this is the problem. These sites are typically pretty sterile, void of voice inflection, facial expressions and body language, that would instantly let anyone know what your true intent of the text actually is. It's very easy to read something completely out of its intended context and this can cause rustled feathers. I try to take things I read, in the context it's meant and not try to read anything into it. I also try to do the same with my posts. Pissing contests and misunderstood comments are an easy hole to fall into, so I focus on the essence of the content, more so the actual adjectives employed. I also look at the poster, who may have better writing skills than I or possibly is having an equal bit of confusion over one of my posts. I've found a well placed emoticon can be helpful, but mostly a grain of salt or with some members, the whole darn salt shaker at times . . . I'm looking forward to your lift pump thread. Will it be the typical manual flap valve deal or something different? I've done several over the years and am always trying to make the next one better. My last was double action and it really moved water well.
  46. 1 like
    Here are some more additions. I found that when it was cold or raining that I would dive into the cabin for shelter and dig out the wash boards and put them in place and slide the hatch shut. I decided that I would want to have their permanent stowage to be in the cabin rather than in a cockpit locker. The only place that I could find that did not interfere with lounging back against the hull was to lay them flat against the hull just above the side stringer. While they are rectangular the aft bulkhead sloped forward and the side stringer slopes downward. It was a less tight fit if the aft block was raised above the stringer. The first pic shows the washboards sitting in their chocks. The second shows the cam that locks them in place. To remove them, rotate the cam, lift the boards until they clear the lips on the chocks and drop them down. I got a few wisecracks about the other items but it starts to look organised now that they are done. I have a decent pair of 7 x 50 binoculars that I hardly use because they are stowed out of the way and it does not seem worth the trouble to leave the cockpit to get them. I wanted to be able to easily reach them, they had to be secure and the lenses need to be covered. The first picture shows them being held by the bracket upside down. Second pic shows the the bracket mounted alongside the cup holder. The third pic shows the binoculars in place. I can now use them and replace them safely and easily. The next two are obvious, pencil rack and paper towel rack.
  47. 1 like
    One of the problems with e-mails and social media is that it is difficult to impart mood when writing. I can't tell you how many times people have misunderstood my e-mails! An my latest posting fiasco was when I was curious about the gaff rig. I posted a question on the Duckworks "magazine" on FB, inquiring about the merits of that rig. You would have thought that I called some people's mother a hooker! I raised a lot of hackles, when all I wanted to do was understand the merits of the rig. I'm not begging you to stay on this thread, but I do ask you to not be so angry about it. It might just be a misunderstanding, poor choice of words, or one loose-lipped grumpy boatbuilder. Hard to say from this keyboard and screen. Years and years ago, I built a boat from fir plywood. It is still around, although it has checked badly. I should have sheathed the skin in 4 oz. But, she has been a fine little boat for over 20 years, so who's to say?
  48. 1 like
    Greg, I've been building anthropometrically measured skin on frame kayaks for some 20 odd years. With one stick, I can measure a person in about ten minutes. Then, about 60 hours later, I can have a frame ready to test fit, then skin. I like cutting mortises and lashing. They are very meditative. I also enjoy straight, plain wood. I've done several sampans, punts, pirogues, and skiffs in plain wood. Lapped sides and cross planked bottoms. Just dumb old pond and swamp boats. I built a bunch of strip/glass canoes and stitch and glues, and swore I'd never do glass and gloop again, hence the title of the thread. My fave is skin on frame. Then wood. Then ply. Then, anything with epoxy.:) Peace, Robert
  49. 1 like
    The lights in a box trick works, though I've just used a single incandescent bulb, rather than a chain of Christmas lights. I'd think both would work, with the Christmas lights having the advantage of spreading the heat around more uniformly, than my single bulb approuch. I used a few foam ice chest coolers, gotten for a few bucks at a fleamarket. I've only needed this a few days out of the year in the last decade, but previously, when I lived in the great white north, the goo lived in the boxes all winter, keeping crystallization from occurring and the goo at a reasonably spreadable temperature. Staving off crystallization was my primary reason for the heated box thing, but having room temperature goo, came as an added benefit.
  50. 1 like
    There's nothing about sweet (or sour) tea that is appealing. To me it's boiled lawn clippings, fresh from the bag behind the mower. There's no amount of lemon or vodka that can alter this fact, though after a bit, the vodka could make it a moot point and slightly palatable.